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"[i]Fame is so fake, I don't advise anyone to seek it, and should you become stained with it, wash it away quickly, before you find yourself a puppet on it's strings, a seed husk spat from its hungry, slobbering mouth, and it's always hungry. You can tell I have a real dislike of Ms Fame and her fanfares. Her emptyness is to be avoided. Seek out the earthy arms of the everyday, the love of close ones and the food of humility. These will fill and sustain you, where fame can never.[/i]"
Andy Partridge XTC.

This is a quote from one of my heroes who's band XTC at one time very nearly went big but due to ill health and other things never made it big as such. However I do believe this is one of the reasons why their music remains so good. They might have become a very different band had they made it or more likely have given up a long time ago.

Reading this quote I was just wondering what the indie artist wants from all this? Is it fame and fortune or recognition? How would the search for fame or the actual gaining of it change the way they make their music.

Does fame make your music any better than when you weren't famous?

I've come across so many artists on the net desperate to be the next big thing, and why not.

But I wonder what they want it to do?

Would they want it to allow themselves to better showcase their music, so that the fame becomes merely a tool by which they can produce their music how they want it to a higher standard?

Or would they adapt and let go the controls so their music becomes the most likely vehicle to achieve fame?

I think the days of the next big thing may well be over and artists may well be put more on a level playing field but then what do I know.

Take care
Mani

Hi, Mani... it's me, G., posting here as M-Jam, for a change of pace...
You raise some very interesting points in this post, and we've been discussing similar issues on this end, as well...
One way to approach this topic, is to bring up one of my own personal heroes, Springsteen (Darkness On The Edge Of Town, and Born To Run remain two of my favorite albums of all time). We were talking this last weekend, about him, and Patti Smith, and several others, and there seems to be a common thread between 'em, and that would be a sort of lack of contrition in their art. Musicians like that, seem to do what gets 'em off, regardless of what anybody might think of it... the first time that I listened to Springsteen's "Racing In The Streets", I simply couldn't BELIEVE he'd use so many "macho" cliche's in one song, and the fact that he had the nerve to do that, didn't make apologies for it, and sincerely loved all of what he was doing, charmed me to no end. There's a lot to be said, for going for what turns you on. I think a lot of artists are either afraid to, or prevented from, doing that these days, and that's why so many commercial releases are so soulless to me.
Some government guy... he was a federal courts judge, or something... once said, on the topic of pornography: "I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it", and I think that's very, very true of music that's coming from the heart, as well... you just can hear a difference.
If that also happens to be marketable as well, fantastic... I'll be first in line to buy the cd... mostly, though, I don't "feel the love" when listening to current commercial releases.
On the indie side of things, I've become a real fan of XBreed, and also MK Ultra... I can't say as I always agree with the message... and if artists only played what people wanted to hear, it'd be a sorry state indeed... what I CAN say, however, is that I always feel the conviction, when I listen to 'em... sincerity comes through, loud and clear. Sort of like getting photographs of what's going on in someone else's mind. That, to me, is what I like about music in general. The sharper the picture, the more I like it. I'm not getting that from Britney Spears or Alanis Morissette, although I'd really like to. Suzanne Vega and Concrete Blonde DO have these qualities, however... Madonna never did, and Cher, strangely enough, always has. I like Cher, 'cause she's never been afraid to do exactly what she wants to do... to the great aggravation of many critics, I'm sure. Gives me a kick... and is Rock & Roll NOT about getting that kick?
Enough for tonight... gonna go listen to "Black Sea" again... I'll be back at CollActive soon enough, as well... apologies for that... gotta get my ducks in a row.
All The Best, M.

 I'd say I do it mostly for selfish reasons, but not on the financial side; rather, I look at music as my emotional 'release valve'.  

 However, The majority of musicians online have little to no outside presence, in the real world that is.  This is what 'stumbles' alot of people.  The shear number of people who 'idle' is astonishing, and I think mostly are either on the same level as me, or post their music simply for 'bragging rights', and that lottery ticket it buys that they 'might' be discovered online.

 I'll be frank (well actually I'm Waldo, but you know what I'm saying):  Simply posting your music on some website somewhere gets you next to squat.

 Making it somewhere 'high up' in the current industry is very much equated to winning the lottery.  It really doesn't matter how much talent you have, or how much emotion you can convey, it's simply how much money you can make the people who decide to 'run the business' for you.

 For us indies, we decide to run the business ourselves, and reap the larger benefit.  But, it's not on the scale that the current industry sees.  Therefor, it's simple:

"How do I get the big guys to notice me"

 Throw out that thought, never use it again.  It's stupid, stand in line, buy your ticket, hope you win.

"How can I change or create an industry which would better suit my needs"

 There ya go, chew on that.  Sure, it's a hell of a lot more work, but only a few people win the lottery each year; several thousand people make more than enough to live off of from simply working hard...

 If you want 'fame', well, that's just a fluke.  Sometimes is happens, sometimes it doesn't.  And then there is this cute little fact: Osama Bin Laden is famous....  All it means is a whole bunch of people know you.  It can be a negative, or positive thing, and sometimes both.  I'd rather be largely unknown, but be able to make a living and enjoy the things I do  How about you?

W.

How about me?..............

Well.. Im happy to keep my music as a hobby....  I have pretty much given up on the fame dream...  I never really wanted the fame thing, but at the same time I felt a responsibility to myself to pursue it...

Im pretty happy the way things are... and YEAH, I do post my music for  "bragging rights"...(I will explain this more further down below)  

My whole motivation of creating my music is a personal challenge... and I know I have won the challenge when I get a review or a critique in my favour..

When I get a critical critique, then I consider if the person has a point and if I want to use his critique to better myself.. However, I don't always agree with critiques...  Even the good ones...

I once had a person tell me they loved my drums on a recording, but i really disliked the drums and decided to change them.. So it goes both ways..

About "Braging Rights"... According to the reviews and critiques I get... My music does all the braggin for me...  

(Yeah I know that sounded a bit swell-headed:)

I try and put out the best sounding product I can and at the same time, I have to please my love for MY music....

Now, If you post CRAP, and go online Bragging about how totally gnarly it is, then I think your silly...

But if there music is "there", it will brag for itself.

I have a website, and I put quite a bit of money and time into my "hobby"....  

Fame is not my goal anymore...  Im happy just for someone to hear my music and tell me they like it... then that poses a challenge for me to do even better the next time around... if they tell me they dislike it.. I look at what i did wrong...

I am offering 3 full songs for free download on my site.. that is almost a third of my new album... for free... no revenues..

I think that shows, my want of just getting the material out and into peoples ears...

Joe

Good points one and all.
Hello M-Jam (you little Pseudonym you) yeah your point about certain artist who put it out regardless with sincerity is so true. Fame has been achieved on the strength of the quality and sincerity of the music. However like Waldo says nowadays this is increasingly hard to achieve. The record industry is being run by the suits they'll decide what's a hit, unless you happen to be established and in such a position that they couldn't stop you.

Making it big nowadays more than ever is about a marketable product. It is about how much money you the artist can make the label. It always was I hear you say, well yes to an extent money was always a factor (it is a business) but now money is the only factor.

Vox (can I call you that) you said it for me man. I initially came on the net because I had songs and people were telling me to "send them off" I did niavely think maybe I could make some money from doing it.

I now put them on the net because they are there, I do try to sell them but this is because the best way to hear them is on cd and it costs me to put them on and I like the old fashioned way of making albums, making a body of work, with my own covers etc.

It is a hobby (and a very obsessive one) and something I will never earn a living out of, but that's cool I earn a living elsewhere and it let's me make my little dittys and play my little games on the net. It's great to listen to my own songs after all those years of hearing them only in my head and to have people occasionally comment on them is fantastic. I've even managed to sell a few which is lifetimes ambition achieved.

Basically I know I'd be making these songs regardless so I figure they may as well be on the net.

Catch ya later
Mani

And I'm DAMN glad you all  post them on the net, since my ears crave music so much.

Maybe I should actually put a piece up some day.... Let you guys hear how bad I suck....


W.

Now that would be something worth hearing.

Do it; Do it; Do it

I don't put songs online to make money. It's all for the fun of it and mainly for family and friends to hear. Eventually I hope our band Cheapjoint just gets good enough to play out locally a few times per year. It would be way too cool to get paid to play music. I've never had a paying gig before but I'm looking forward to it down the road. I also equate the fame and fortune thing as to winning the lottery but I also really enjoy my solitude and don't think I'm cut out to famous. Money can be the root of all evil they say.

I'm working on a piece right now, for all to hear....  Kind of a Eclectic rock piece, swinging from genre to genre, but keeping the general message in place...  It will probably suck, since it's entirely concieved from my mind, and played by me...  But I guess only time will tell.

I'm with Charvster, I don't do it for money, but sure as hell wouldn't complain if I could make a living off of it!

(Drunken Waldo)

Hey:

Hope all are well!!!

Good topic Mani

Why do people post their music on the web and promote it, if they are not looking for some type of recognition.  Some people would call that  the pursuit of "Fame".  I also guess if people could make money from their music, and keep their artistic integrity, I guess some will call that the pursuit of "Fortune".
It's hard not to fall into one of those categories. lol

Pathros

?question?
why is this on the side of my post?
"I love YaBB 1G - SP1!"
What does it mean.

It's the forum software I'm running.  If you want to change it, edit your 'Profile' by clicking on 'Profile' in the menu above.

Thanks W.

Ok,  put up a link to this music you are creating.

Hiya Pathros good to see you about.

Good point on the fame and fortune thing. I do think though that there is a subtle difference between someone seeking recognition of their work and those who simply seek recognition using their work as a means of achieving it.

Anywho it's an intriging subject indeed.
Catch ya later
mani