The company who currently sells the ad space for NWR has stated that we can no longer opt out of their pop-up banner campaigns, and that tomorrow (how nice of them to give no notice), they will be switching pop-ups on.
I will not have pop-ups and unders on the NWR account, as I have already dealt with lowsy applications and miss-representative ads in inappropriate places, not to mention 2-3 pop-ups per page. At that time they said they couldn't do anything to control frequency, or which ads would appear, I could only opt out, and take a cut in the income. So I opted out.
Well, now they say pop-ups, or nothing. So, NWR has lost 1/4 of its income. If you know of anyone who would like to place ads directly on NWR, let me know, there will be a ton of spots open. Otherwise, I'm going to have to shut down all free users as they will no longer be covered even partially by advertising.
Ad rates are cheap, we're not here to make a million, just survive. Let me know,
waldo@nowhereradio.com
An extra note, if you are trying to post, the forum logins are seperate from the main site. Please sign up as a forum user to post here (click register above).
I am signing off for the night, as I have a couple early morning service calls tomorrow to make some food money. I'll be back online around 6 or 7PM MST.
Bastards... once again, corporate greed is the source of opression...
First question: If free users are eliminated from NWR, approximately how many artists will be remaining in its' catalogue? Won't that decrease the likelihood of drawing consumers to the site? I mean, there's some pretty harsh competition out there, at the moment...
Second question: is there some way NWR can merge, with other existing services, as a means of deferring expenses? True, it may become a whole lot less independent, as a result of a move like that, but if it's sink or swim time, I'd rather have NoWhere exist SOMEWHERE, than not at all... I don't think I'm alone, in harboring the opinion that a majority of indie acts are more interested in exposure, and what the web can do for their promotion, than they are in the purity of intent in the server itself. In other words... if a compromise of some kind is inevitable anyway, it might be advantageous to be in a position to choose the poison.
Just some thoughts... G.
Hi Waldo
:o
Sorry I haven't been around here much recently. Thanks for inviting me over. The new messageboard looks great and it has to be said it will look so much better without pop-up ads. Best of luck finding sponsors. I'll check back in later on and take a better look around
[flash=468,60]http://jezaland.users.btopenworld.com//Flash/takemebanner.swf[/flash]
Best regards
Jeza
Hmm yeah. :P That really sucks. An alternate solution should be sought after however, because IMHO the day Nowhere shuts down it's free users is the day Nowhereradio turns way of the MP3/independent music predecessors and flushes itself down the metaphorical toilet. A sticky predicament without a doubt. ???
That sucks, Waldo. Sorry to hear about your add/income woes.
Just an observation here:
I guess there aren't many "free lunches" left; which is understandable I guess, considering that running a site like this costs money.
It gets to be a sticky situation though, as the artists provide the content of a music site. Charging artists to host thier tunes smacks of "pay to play," a concept that I've always loathed. I've seen a lot of music sites crash and burn in a relatively short time though, including several internet radio stations that were pretty good.
IUMA went under and was bought out by Vitaminic, as most of you know - now support is like, zilch. The stats haven't even worked in over a year, so I don't even know the effectiveness of posting my tunes there... not to mention that Vitaminic now has my music posted in several European languages... not sure how I feel about that, though I'm sure I agreed to something along the way allowing it. At least they've sent me a check for my earnings...
Artistlaunch started as a freebie, then started a subscription fee - only two tunes to the mp3 leech like myself. I could deal, but just this week I received an e-mail saying that number was being cut to one tune...
Mp3.com? Enuff said... once a content provider, now I'm a second-class citizen. I'm not gonna wait two weeks for a tune to be "approved" there. It's a shame.
There is absolutely NO excuse for the big guys to gouge an artist like, for $28 a month?!?!? For a small site like this though, fiscal realities may dictate a fee...
Anyway Waldo, this little rant isn't directed towards you in any way. I understand how much you've invested and sacrificed to remain open for business.
If I were to lay out cash for hosting anywhere, it would be here.
Good luck with this latest bullshit.
??? ;D ??? ;D
"Bullnuts?" I've never said "bullnuts" in my life!!! ;D ;D
That's funny dude!
Um, hey... how much is a banner ad anyway?
I can't believe everyone's whining about the small fee that Waldo charges for his so very valuable service. Folks.......it's $27.50 [i]a year.[/i] Now I agree with gbrogan that $28 a month is more than I would pay, but $27.50 a year? Com'n. And you don't get the service you get from Waldo from anyone else. I've never had a single question or problem that he took over an hour to get back to me. Try that with Mp3.crap. Waldo isn't some buisiness bastard buying yachts off the backs of starving artists. He's a starving artist himself and he's just asking us to help out enough so this site doesn't destroy him financially.
I've paid and I don't ever pay for anything at an internet site. But I've paid this because 1. [i]IT'S CHEAP![/i] and 2. I'm convinced that Waldo is a good guy.
So everyone ante up just a bit and help out. Buy two less pizzas this month and you're set for a year. And how much are banner ads anyway Waldo? The way things are going I might be able to make a few ducats as a sax internet-session man. ;D
I don't got much time, just waiting for my bus to take me to work. Y'all were asking about ad rates:
$25USD/mo. min. for 468x60 banner ads, CPM and CPC rates will change as more ads are set up, so for the first few months I will leave it at $25USD/mo.
If we cut out all the free users, it will seriously damage traffic.
More later.
Popups are a great big pain in the situpon. They've installed them over at Yahoo games, which used to be free (and still is, if you don't mind the popups). But if you pay their subscription fee, you don't get popups. Ask me how I feel about that, about an outfit as big as Yahoo charging me money not to be irritated by popups.
Okay, rant's done. Here are some points:
1 I understand that it costs money to get things done on a regular basis at a decent level of quality, and that I shouldn't expect things for free. But how does homerecording.com get by without popups or required user fees? Inquiring minds want to know. Well, this one does, anyway.
2 The subscription fee on this site here is r-e-a-l-l-y reasonable.
3 Possibly stupid idea: post a link on this site to a free popup killer download site. Let 'em run their popups. Bastards.
;)
Dobro, great minds think alike. The pop-up killer was exactly what I was thinking.
Man oh man,
ive got a twelver in me but here goes,
For everything i hate about mp3.cum Waldo has made up for ten fold.
Just today i was checking out my bands old shit on our mp3 site, and i got a god damned coke ad followed me all the way down the fucking screen. I tried to back page and a fucking ad for some shit dvd i will never watch was in my face.
( i know this sounds corney), but What kind of "artist" with true integrity wants their inner thoughts , pain, or enlightenment to sell fucking bullshit like that?
There have been a couple of glitches with my NWR account and Waldo has been right on top of it.
At mp3 I registered bands ive been in ,or recorded and have NO idea what ever happened to any of it. It said it was going to a review board. Review board? I dont need a fucking review board. Just let me post my work.
I thought Waldos 10 mb free was verry generous and to show my thanks i bought space.
I dont want to see pop ups. I dont want music to sell me anything. Make yer fucking music and let people listen and enjoy it.....hastle free.
What a hard concept.
NWR is run by a man that works his ass off to make sure anyone who posts or listens here doesnt have to deal with all the bullshit.
drunken rant ended.......................but not the drinkin'
rodvonbon
HAHAHAHAHAHHA,
Thats not the picture i was trying to post.
Thats me and my wife!!!!
I cant seem to change it , oh well.
rodvonbon
And i have never used the term "bullnuts" in my life!
Selling music ad space may be the answer. I would rather see music ad's, than spy camera pop up's. I would be willing to pay $50.00 for a BIA Banner that sent people to our BIA HUB site. Maybe bands would want to pay a few bucks(dollars) and buy some exposure.
Cute wife! (where do I get me one)
Anywho, dobro, to answer your question, NWR uses alot more bandwidth as an average than HomeRec, bandwidth is what costs money... On HR, 1 page = roughly 30kB, and there is no large file downloads. Each page sports an ad. So we can say 1 ad per 30kB.
On NWR, 1 page is still small, but the download or stream of one song averages 3-4MB. So, user visits one page and makes one download (lets be very generous and say they only download one song, it's very rare they only download one...). That means for every (lets be generous again) 3MB, there is one ad...
Now, bandwidth costs roughly $5USD/GB, and ads currently pay out about 0.20/CPM (if you are lucky.. CPM means per 1,000 views). It would take 34,953 page views (roughly) to make 1GB of transfer. At 34,953 views, that's about $7USD income from ads. So, Dragon has made $2 profit, as the bandwidth cost him $5USD.
With NWR, if we assume 1 download per page view, and the download is 3MB (lets use low numbers, just to demonstrate), it takes only 341 page views to reach 1GB of transfer. 341 page views would mean about $0.07USD income from ads, but the cost is still $5USD for that bandwidth. So, in essence, I lose $4.93USD for that GB, nowhere near a profit. That's why I instituted the charge, to make up for some of that loss, and all the services tied together help make up for it (and the rest comes out of my pocket). Given that a couple dozen GB of transfer are used daily, not to mention my time and equiptment, well, you figure out the math!
That's why alot of those 'free' webhosts don't allow you to post mp3's, they can't put ads on the data to cover the expense. And that'd be technically difficult, and lame!
I am going to of course have ads on the radio station once it is finished testing (and I get new software needed to help lower the costs), but need to fill those spots... Tons of 20s spots are available!
Everyone, I have some partial good news, I recieved a letter back from the ad company that they will not force me to use pop-ups, they appologized and said that 'I' was not supposed to recieve that letter, I figure they got worried, as I have made phone calls to them in the past. The 468x60 ad inventory is, however, much smaller, and will continue to get smaller (and worth less), so I am still looking for folks to advertise and help cover the expense. It will also be only a matter of time before the 468x60 ads cost more to show than generate income, how long, who knows, but maybe only a month or two.
I'm going to try and mellow out today, just got back from working, then two independent service calls, then a doctors appt., and the chiropractor.... I'm sore as hell, might just kick back and watch a (pirated) movie.
If y'all have money making ideas, shoot them at me. I'll respond if I haven't already thought of it or tried it.
Heya pathros,
You posted while I was typing so I missed your comment.
The ad rates I'm putting out are alot less than that. I'm actually proposing that for the next two months at least, the charge be $25USD/mo. for unlimitted rotation of the ad. Meaning that you'd at least 35,000 impressions on the site, but possibly as much as every single page view on NWR.
I'll be working out a CPM rate as soon as I can guage traffic and number of advertisers, which I figure will take two months.
Audio ads will also run at that same low minimum for two months after the station opens. So, for both a 20s audio spot and banner ad, unlimitted rotational exposure, $50USD/mo.
No minimum on the number of months purchased. Those who pay in advance past those 2 mo. I will keep the rate the same for them for at least a year.
I will commit at this time to some ad space for the BIA.
I would like it to say something like, "The Band of Independent artists supports independent music at [b]NowhereRadio.com[/b] In the long run if artists do not open their wallets indie music sites will not last. . People pay their phone bill, their rent, their car loan, etc etc etc, why is it so hard for people to understand that it costs money to run a music site.
Artist cry about people stealing their music, but they want to get "free" web space and service.
Should get Mani to whip up a banner, or maybe gearhead. Did you want an audio ad as well?
Whatever $50.00 will get me. lol
$50USD will get you audio and banner ads for a month ;) But the audio ads aren't ready yet, so $50USD would get 2 months of banner ads.
Audio should be ready in 2 months or less.
cool:
OK W. as soon as I ask G. or Mani to make one(bia banner), I will send the money. Two months sounds fine. It's not my expertise making banner's, but I would like to have some input on what it would look like.
[b]Re compilation CD(as a way to raise money)[/b]
Each artist who is on the CD must sell 10-15 CD's to friends and fan's. Part of the proceeds would go to help Nowhere. Maybe it could be a BIA/Nowhere Joint project(would make me more interested).
For example it would cost $100-150 to be on the compilation CD. For that cost you would get
10 free CD's to sell. It would cost $5 for each additional
CD you want. Kid's around here are always selling something for their school fundraisers, It can't be hard for Music Artists/bands to sell a few CD's(especially if their band is on the CD),
Pathros
Well, for $100-$150 a person, a heck of alot more CDs could be printed. In fact, with lets say 15 artists on the CD, there'd be enough to print 1,000-1,500 CDs professionally. I like your thinking, if people will go for it.
Well don't get too caught up in using the cd money to get more cds...........the point is supposed to be finding funds to help Nowhereradio.com 8)
True, true, but even at that rate, there would be a few hundred profit for NWR I figure...
Thats the point.
Okay, let me work some numbers out and stuff, and I'll post when I have a better idea of how that might work. Definately on my 'good idea' list.
Wow! I like the board Waldo! It's not quite as sleek as the ikonboard but definetely sufficient. I see it takes flash embeds...that's cool, haven't felt the need yet but you never know.
Sounds like good ideas in here as usual, I was making plans to go my own direction but why compete with what you have going, you've been busting your butt...I see!
No, I am building a site though but I'm going to keep it local, just for Texas artists. I'm more interested in winning support in my home base for the time being plus it will minimize to an extent on how many users I have to deal with. Not even sure if I want to host everyone's audio, I may just host one song from each band and create an online station. I kind of like just linking to everyone else's site as I am now this way they can build as they please and just centralize through me.
It's hard to say what I want to do right now...lol...just thinking it out, maybe I will have a world wide page or something where you can just ad your links with a little bio. We'll see.
If anyone wants banners...I can do them in Flash or GIF whichever...how much? Hmmm? I dunno-what sounds fair?
To see some of my Flash work go to my band site...
[url=http://www.screamin-seamen.com/freakophonics]The freakOphonics[/url]
If you have a Texas band and want to be linked to other Texas bands go to
[url=http://www.screamin-seamen.com]The Home of the Best Austin and Texas Music[/url]
One thing for sure I want to rename the site...to something else like maybe Lonestarmusic.com?
Any ideas?
Peace yall,
PHAT PAT
Ps. Can you change the size of your avatars?
I prefer 100x100 - makes text more legible
Hold off a bit on doing your site Pat, project 'Everywhere' might be right up your alley, and is specific to locals. More news will be released within a month.
Well, I can't really hold up now cuz' I've already started heading that direction...doing reviews of local artists..taking pics, etc. I plan on offering videos as cd extras in QuickTimes player on our CD compilations that are about to kick off too. But I'm still interested maybe you could give me a few details of what you have in mind? Project Everywhere? Got a post somewhere about this? I'm soooo behind on this site, sorry, just been in another world.
No details as it's pretty hush hush, lots of people would like to stop what is being planned, or start it themselves.
Details on release only ;)
It seems like many people want to make music sites, but
they become diluted by the vast number of them that pop up on a regular basis. I guess the idea of a local music site that only caters to very local music groups, this could get more local publicity than one that is international. I guess you could even do a little local advertising in newspapers. Rather be the only local music site, than one out of a thousand international sites. Interesting.
Pathros
Pathros,
Think back to the e-mail I sent you quite a while back. And then please no discussion about it in the forums until the program is complete!
Thx!